User:Timdp

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~tmott/mottw40k.htm

From: mbstudios@aol.com (MBStudios) Newsgroups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer Subject: Re: TEMPEST TAMK: ARMORCAST OR FORGEWORLD? Reply-To: mbstudios@aol.com (MBStudios) Date: Mon Oct 16 05:31:55 1995

dana@col.hp.com (Adrian Johnson) writes:

>Which brand comes with a better datafax? Point costs?? Are the same weapons on both models??? Which has greater detail????

As the person who sculpted the originals that both companies are producing, I can honestly say Armorcasts models are FAR superior. Forge World merely pulled molds from models they purchased from me, while Armorcasts models mold were done from the original Masters I created.

The Forge World models I have seen were very sloppy. The center sections of Baneblade's hull were badly warped. The details they put on the models looked out of place, and rough. The tracks were very rough versions of the original ones I did, AND they were only one sided.

I personally think of Forgery World (as I call them) as nothing but a pack of thieves, but I shouldn't be flaming them here.

I would say buy from Armorcast, and stay away from Forgery World.. But thats just the artist who made the models opinion.

Later..

mike

Reply-To: mbstudios@aol.com (MBStudios) Date: Thu Oct 19 01:47:03 1995

Psssst.. I need to make it clear.. I am NOT Armorcast staff. I support Armorcast. I sculpt new models for Armorcast. but I'm not on thier payrole.

Primarily I just can't stand Forgery World. They (as far as I'm concerned) STOLE the models they are producing.

Just needed to say that.. Later.. Mike

Article #10958 (10989 is last): From: requiescat@aol.com (RequiesCat) Newsgroups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer Subject: Re: TEMPEST TAMK: ARMORCAST OR FORGEWORLD? Reply-To: requiescat@aol.com (RequiesCat) Date: Thu Oct 19 02:15:02 1995

A Side by Side Comparison of Armorcast & Forge World Models (a close look at the details)

When you first look at the two companies models they Look roughly the same. But, then again, this isn't a mystery to those of us who've seen them when Mike Biasi Studios was making them. Both companies are using the Mike Biasi models as thier masters (so we are told). Both models come in sturdy white cardboard boxes with black and with art on the top. Now lets take a close look at the models.

Details: As I stated, both models are roughly the same, but both vae slightly different detail pieces. The Armorcast models follow the look of the miniature and weapon types, while the Forge World models have added some stuff (some of which looks out of place). Take the Forge World Baneblade. Forge World added what appears to be Las-Cannon muzzle breaks on the battlcannons. Not to big a deal, it would be easy to cut off and fix. and Forge World REALLY wants you to know it made the model, not only do they have thier name on the inside (where it wouldn't show when assembled) but they also have a big plate on the bottom (grab that file and start sanding).

Castings: Both models seem to have periodic bubbles. One companies has it in one spot, the others in another. It appeared on the copies I have, that Armorcasts had slightly fewer bubbles (or atleast they were in less visible spots), especially on the Tempests. Armorcast's Tempest had FAR fewer bubbles. I also noticed that Forge Worlds center sections on both the Baneblade & Shadowsword, had visible warping (the lines didn't look straight). It wasn't super noticable, but when you put the two models side by side, Armocast's looked less like it was made of wax and left in the sun.

Tracks: On the Baneblade & Shadowsword, there is a very noticable difference in the tracks between the two companies. Forge World's, though cast in black (a good idea) looked really rough the road wheels look like they were hit by a melta), and were only one sided (about half way through

This is probably way more than you wanted, but it needed to get written for posting on the CCM wiki, so you get to look at all of it. Use what you want.

Timeline In the beginning there was Inquisitor...

1991 Tim DuPertuis started publishing Inquisitor: A 40K Forum magazine in June of 1991 and began selling a resin Vindicator conversion piece for the Rhino at the same time. GW was happy to see the fanzine and allowed the Vindicator piece to be sold under a very casual license. 

Then came Mike Biasi... He built the first Reaver Titan in 1991 and received a casual license from GW to produce them by January of 1992 A more formal license followed in October 1993.

Tim and Mike made contact in the summer of 1991 and the second issue of  Inquisitor has a photo of Mike’s first Reaver model on the cover, along with the article So You Want To Build A Titan: Scale in Warhammer 40,000 

1992 Nick Tompkins (also from the San Francisco bay area) saw Mike’s models, built some things (Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon), sent them to GW and received a casual license in the spring of 1992.

By 1994 Mike was having problems producing enough models to meet demand and was far behind in his shipping due to his slow method of replacing dead molds. GW terminated his license on March 21, 1994. He continued to slowly ship backordered models.

1995 John Richardson purchased a number of Mikes models and proposed a partnership with Mike including much money in the form of royalties. He sent GW a license proposal with some rather amazing sales numbers, which was accepted by GW in the spring of 1995. Forgeworld Models started production of some of the models bought from Mike using the production pieces (not master sculpts) as the basis for the production castings, including a famously broken Baneblade side skirt with a very badly done repair. Mike never received a dime of the promised royalties from Forge World Models.

Tim DuPertuis, with business partner David Garton (not knowing about the Forge World Models proposal) sent a similar proposal to GW. Because of Tim DuPertuis’ previous relationship with GW through Inquisitor magazine and the Vindicator conversion kit and Mike’s agreement to work with Armorcast (not Forge World Models), GW decided to give both companies identical competitive one year license contracts for sales in the USA only. Whichever company did the best job with the license would get an open ended two year license with an implied worldwide sales area. The winning company would be the sole GW resin vehicle producer (Epicast’s license would not be renewed).

Tim’s use of different molding techniques based on his previous profession as maker of custom lost wax cast jewelry, used more rubber than Mike’s traditional artist’s mold making techniques, but it made mold making much quicker which as very important when molds wore out. The new molding techniques also gave better alignment of both sides of the mold making for less mold shift. Vacuuming the uncured rubber while in the mold completely eliminated bubbles in the mold rubber making for much cleaner castings.

The first thing that Armorcast did was to produce and ship the many backordered models that Mike had not been able to get shipped.

Armorcast won the year long competition, both in terms of models produced (royalties for GW) and in quality of models, so got the two year license, but was unhappy that GW withheld the worldwide selling area and limited sales to the USA.

Early in the new license, GW decided that they wanted to see more detailed models from Armorcast with a much higher level of detail. We were directed to only work on one highly detailed model for GW’s approval. No other models would be approved. We (Mike) worked hard on the Superdetailed Baneblade and we regularly shipping GW pieces for approval, but never received any feedback on the model until they told us that that license would not be renewed. When we asked about the SD Baneblade they said it was not good enough. Nice of them to lets us know after the fact.

The easiest way for me to chronicle the Tim DuPertuis, MBS, Epicast Forge World Models (USA), and Armorcast releases is through the ads in Inquisitor.

Inquisitor 3 (January 1992) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for Vindicator ad. First Mike Bias Studios ad for Reaver and Warhound Titans. First Titan ruleset with rules, weapons charts, Data Cards and a summary sheet for Imperial Ork and Eldar Titans from Knights up to Emperor class. 

Inquisitor 4 (April 1992) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for vindicator ad. Tempest Grav Tank added to MBS ad. First Epicast Ad with Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon (with rules)   Complete vehicle rules revision to match the Inquisitor Titan ruleset with rules and Critical Hit Charts. Eldar Titan weapons added.

Inquisitor 5 (June 1992) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for vindicator ad. MBS ad for Reaver and Warhound Epicast Ad with Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon Walkers and Dreadnoughts added to Titan/Vehicle ruleset with rules and Critical Hit Charts

Inquisitor 6 (September 1992) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for vindicator ad. MBS ad for Reaver and Warhound Epicast Ad with Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon Revised and updated Titan weapons chart. Tyranid Army Unit Cards: Tyranid Warriors, Genestealers, Hunter-Slayers, Genestealer Hybrids, Zoats , Brood Brothers.

Inquisitor 7 (February 1993) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for Vindicator ad. MBS ad for Reaver and Warhound Epicast Ad with Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon

Inquisitor 8 (Spring 1993) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for Vindicator ad. MBS ad for Reaver, Warhound, Tempest Graav Tank and Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight (available soon) Epicast ad with Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon

Inquisitor (Summer 1993) MBS ad for Reaver, Warhound, Tempest Grav Tank and Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight Epicast ad with Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon

Inquisitor 10 (Fall 1993) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for Vindicator ad. MBS ad for Reaver, Warhound, Tempest Graav Tank, and Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight. Epicast ad with Imperial Termite and Eldar Falcon. New Phantom model on the cover. Rules for Phantom Titans.

Inquisitor 11 (Winter 93/94) Tim DuPertuis Thundercannon for Vindicator ad. MBS ad for Reaver, Warhound, Tempest Grav Tank, Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight and Eldar Phantom Titan Epicast ad with Imperial Termite, Eldar Falcon, Ork Gobsmasher, Vindicator and Whirlwind Rhino conversion kit Cover photo shows Reaver, Warhound, Tempest Graav Tank, Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight, Eldar Phantom Titan, Ork Great Gargant and Imperial Warlord Titan. Points system for Titans (at last!).

Inquisitor 12 (Spring 1994) Tim DuPertuis ad for full color Titan banners and Thundercannon for Vindicator ad. MBS ad for Reaver, Warhound, Tempest Grav Tank, Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight and Eldar Phantom Titan Epicast ad with Imperial Termite, Eldar Falcon, Ork Gobsmasher, and Vindicator/Whirlwind Rhino conversion kit. Revised Vehicle system for 2nd edition

Inquisitor 13 (Summer 1994) Tim DuPertuis ad for full color Titan banners. MBS ad stating that he will no longer be taking new orders. “there is a distinct possibility that another company that has the capability of producing the models in quantity will pick up the line in the near future.” Epicast ad with Imperial Termite, Eldar Falcon, Ork Gobsmasher, Vindicator, Whirlwind Rhino conversion kit and two Ork Stompers. Contents: Revised Vehicle system for 2nd edition including Superheavies.

There is a time gap between issue 13 and issue 14 because we were getting Armorcast started and did a major Titan rules revision.

Inquisitor 14 (September 1996) Armorcast ad for Reaver, Warhound, Baneblade, Shadowsword, Baneblade/Shadowsword combo kit, Ork Battlewagon, Ork Great Gargant, Tempest Grav Tank, Eldar Revenant Scout Titan, Eldar Phantom Titan, Chaos Cannon Of Khorne, Chaos Cauldron of Blood and at long last the three Tyranid vehicles, Exocrine, Malefactor and Haruspex. Contents: Complete revsion if the Titan rule set.

Inquisitor 15 (August 1997) Armorcast ad for Reaver, Warhound, Banebalde, Shadowsword, Banebalde/Shadowsword combo kit, Ork Battlewagon, Ork Great Gargant, Tempest Grav Tank, Eldar Revenant Scout Titan, Eldar Phantom Titan, Chaos Cannon Of Khorne, Chaos Cauldron of Blood, Exocrine, Malefactor and Haruspex. First Armorcast Terraform battlefield Terrain pieces. Contents:  Squat Army Lists! Titan Datafaxes (Toned down version of the Titan ruleset)

Inquisitor 16 (August 1997) Armorcast ad for Reaver, Warhound, Banebalde, Shadowsword, Banebalde/Shadowsword combo kit, Ork Battlewagon, Ork Great Gargant, Tempest Grav Tank, Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight, Eldar Revenant Scout Titan, Eldar Phantom Titan, Chaos Cannon Of Khorne, Chaos Cauldron of Blood, Exocrine, Malefactor and Haruspex.  Contents:  Revised Phantom Datafax Superheavy Datafaxes Chaos Vehicle Datafaxes Tyranid Vehicle Datafaxes

Inquisitor 17 (July 1998) Last GW models Armorcast ad for new superdetailed Baneblade and discussion of end of Armorcast license. Contents:  Dactylis and many other Datafaxes

Inquisitor 18 (May 1999) Contents: 3rd edition playtest rules for Titans, superheavies and other vehicles including Tyranid vehicles.

Inquisitor 18 was the last issue because after playing quite a few games of 3rd edition 40K, my gaming group decided that it sucked and we quit playing 40K altogether.

Imperial Reaver Imperial Warhound Baneblade Shadowsword Baneblade/Shadowsword combo kit Super Detailed Baneblade

Eldar Tempest Grav Tank Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight Eldar Revenant Scout Titan Eldar Phantom Titan

Ork Great Gargant Ork Battlewagon

Chaos Cannon Of Khorne Chaos Cauldron of Blood

Tyranid Exocrine Tyranid Malefactor Tyranid Haruspex

Yes, upscaled to 28mm by Mike using traditional sculpting techniques (way pre-digital). The model is a straight up copy of the Epic figure shown in Wayne's first pic. On the first Mike Biasi Studios version the right shoulder even matched the Epic model. The Armorcast version got a major clean up and changed the right shoulder weapon to a then current scatter laser design and made the piece a separate piece to make the model a tiny bit easier to cast. There were plans to resculpt it with posable legs and arms...

The Armorcast Towering Destroyer model is in perfect scale with GW's plastic knight, which is basically a Fire Gale (leftmost model in this pic).